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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.05.23 16:29:00 -
[1]
 Originally by: Vio Geraci
In the case of clear attempts to violate the CSM processes laid out by CCP or obvious mental illnesses causing total breaks with reality, the CSM should be able to call for a vote of no confidence in their Chairman. Like in Hamlet. Express support or discuss criticism of this idea here, thank you.
Unnecessary. CCP already have the authority to dismiss a CSM rep who is bringing the game and process into disrepute. If that happens the first alternate will step up and bring the council back to nine reps.
If its simply "your opinion" that a CSM rep/chair/v.chair or whatever is behaving badly but CCP don't share that opinion is a serious professional sense, then you will have to wait until the next session of the CSM and register your disapproval by voting for somebody else next time.
It really is that simple.
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.05.23 17:01:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 23/05/2008 17:02:11
Originally by: Sally Bestonge
This Council is a Representation of the players themselves not what ever CCP says is okay.
And I repeat.
Quote:
If its simply "your opinion" that a CSM rep/chair/v.chair or whatever is behaving badly but CCP don't share that opinion in a serious professional sense, then you will have to wait until the next session of the CSM and register your disapproval by voting for somebody else next time.
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.09 11:04:00 -
[3]
(repost from Jita Park)
As to the general complaints about muting raised here. I stand 100% behind what I did. And I'd do exactly the same next time, to any CSM member who ignores 2 formal warnings on disruptive behaviour. I'm expecting certain rules of courtesy from CSM members in council and these need to be respected if this process is going to go anywhere.
Its been established that raising a hand "!" in channel is to be used to indicate a desire to speak. From there the chair recognizes individuals by name and they speak in order as called. Once we've moved to a vote on an issue it is not appropriate to continue debating against the notion of the vote - clarification can be asked for, its considered respectful behaviour to listen to clarification while its being given.
Now text based meetings of this sort are extremely challenging - there is no verbal queue, no eye contact, and very little peer pressure on members of the council to behave properly. Yesterday's session is an example of what happens when moderation from the chair is not followed. We managed to get through the agenda by pure force of will and stubborn resolve on the part of the CSM officers however - if we'd ended on time - items 6 to 17 on the agenda would not have been heard.
But it does show there are problems. I'm pretty unhappy with the in-game chat system and its functionality in this medium. The mute function does not work as it should do, the word limits mean that statements are broken up and its too easy for people to interrupt and break the flow of meaning. I'd personally be much happier with a voice meeting or even using IRC chat where the moderation functions work correctly.
End of the day though, that agenda was discussed and resolved and what needed clarifying got clarified. I repeat, I'm a 100% behind the moderation decisions taken and will do exactly the same thing next time if people refuse to respect the process of the meeting and keep cross-talking and interrupting and behaving disruptively.
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.09 11:36:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy
So how will you be voting on this issue when it comes up in the next meeting Jade?
If it doesn't come up at the next meeting I'd imagine that your position will only become more untenable
Quote:
In the case of clear attempts to violate the CSM processes laid out by CCP or obvious mental illnesses causing total breaks with reality, the CSM should be able to call for a vote of no confidence in their Chairman. Like in Hamlet. Express support or discuss criticism of this idea here, thank you.
Well if LaVista or Bane wish to allege that that I've violated CSM processes or suffer from obvious mental illnesses then I'm going to vote against obviously. (unless of cause they can show precisely how I've violated those processes or maybe produce a certificate of mental illness). I guess either possibility is as likely.
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.09 12:06:00 -
[5]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy
Considering Jade has stated that he feels he did nothing wrong and would act the same next time I feel you are sadly mistaken.
But I'm not going to judge if an elected person isn't good enough for a job, from 1 failed meeting.
I'm sure while Jade states he would do the same, that probably isn't the whole truth. He will think and learn from history, like everybody else.
The lesson learned from that last meeting is for the Chair to be firmer, sooner, and take a much more vigorous hand in preventing unrecognized interruptions from the representatives LaVista. If people will not follow the discipline of raising their hand to be recognized to speak then it is impossible to keep order between nine people in an text chat. If this happens again I'll be inclined to act earlier and more decisively to warn the people doing this and ensure we don't waste time with pointless cross talk and off-topic interruptions while we are trying to go through the agenda.
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.06.09 23:44:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Theramin Dogon
Originally by: Gaius Kador
Everyone deserves a second chance.
I'm going to quote this so hard when someone tries to institute a vote of no confidence in the GoonFleet CSM members based solely on their corporation.
What's that? You mean they did that already?
Please note who voted against ... 
(and why)
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.06.10 02:06:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Theramin Dogon
You're hardly acting as if you care what anyone else thinks, as you've repeatedly said that you'll act the same way in the future.
Not true, I care about what some people think. I just don't happen to care what abusive trolling people think. And yep, while I have admitted some mistakes in that meeting I don't believe muting Inanna was one of them and I stand by that decision. If you want vote to "impeach the chair" because you hate the concept of committee moderation then go you. But don't feel too bad if I mostly ignore your arguments on the matter as irrelevant claptrap while I get back to considering the merits of gameplay issues on this forum section right?
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Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.10 23:47:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Theramin Dogon
So you're going to just ignore us, blow us off, and the thread that has been created because of you, yourself, Jade Constantine? It's becoming increasingly evident that you don't care about us just because we didn't vote for you. If you keep up that attitude, you may not get another term.
No you misunderstand. I don't care about silly forum trolls with nothing better to do than post exactly the same thing 10101001301003 other forum trolls are posting. Its got nothing to do with people not voting for me. I can respect a difference of opinion, what I can't respect is repetitious mediocrity. I find collectivist activity very yarn-inspiring at the best of times.
Quote:
The only problem with this is that there's been very little feedback from CCP. Xhagen may have been in the first official meeting, but he didn't really do anything. They haven't even published the minutes from the first three meetings yet. I think it's partially their fault, too, that Jade has taken it upon himself to enforce the meetings as he sees fit.
Well technically I've taken it onto myself to run the meetings as advised in the CSM documentation. Where things have gone wrong have been where I've made the mistake of allowing this council a little too much democracy and allowed them to impact the constitution of the CSM itself. Inevitably it led to problems as people try to vote themselves advantage. Case in point was the vote on moderation and op powers. What I should have done was rule it out of order and simply say "the docs say the Chair moderates live with it or complain to ccp". Instead we wasted time on a vote to confirm a power the officers have anyway just to placate the butt-hurt feelings of some guys that don't like being told when they can speak in meetings.
Thats the truth of it.
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.07.31 00:53:00 -
[9]
Non constructive and not an ISSUE for the CSM. Its assembly hall spam. Lock please.
Star Fraction | Dare to Dream!
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